Ending the War on Drugs

Costs of persuing a failed strategy

Published on February 15, 2004 By PoetPhilosopher In Politics

This is your brain on drugs.

Seems quaint now doesn't it? Humorous.

In 2003 the US spent $19 billion in the war on drugs, a stunning $600 a second. And for what?

1.6 million arrests, someone arrested every 20 seconds - 40% of which are for marijuana possesion. Not selling drugs, not traffiking, but POSSESION.

$600 a second to arrest 650,000 people for smoking pot.

What are we thinking???

Prohibition didn't work in the 1920s and it has not worked in the 30 years that we have waged the war on drugs. When will we learn a new approach is needed ?

Comments (Page 4)

xr700

on Feb 18, 2004

Drugs need to be gotten rid of. Period. I have had around 10 friends I have watched go from some of the smartest kids in school to the biggest drug addicted losers. You wanna know how fun it is to watch your friends throw their lives away? This wasn't cocaine or heroin, it was pot. Yep, harmless old pot ruined my friends' lives, and now they've dropped out of school and work at gas stations, Wal-Mart, Fred Meyer, and Safeway. Funny, I thought this drug was harmless.

jeblackstar

on Feb 18, 2004

The majority of people in this World does not believe in one white-bearded creator who impregnated some girl before her husband could see to her, .....and you don´t see us outlawing christianity. IMAO.

That's an amazingly offensive, but true statement. The thing is, there are countries where Christianity is outlawed. Do I think that's wrong? Yes, because I feel that religious freedom is important, I do not feel that Drug freedom is important. We all have seen over the years the harmful effect of the "legal" drugs, and our government has certainly taken steps to reduce their prominence. Just imagine if the illegal drugs were suddenly legal.

Cheers

Weltregierung

on Feb 18, 2004

have you guys been to the netherlands?
They are the only country who have a long long test run on
being liberal on soft drugs.

the statistic shows that there are no more users than in any other
western country, where Cannabis is prohibited.

In fact it successfully seperates markets.
It´s more likely someone will TRY some new drug, if he is forced to buy
his relaxation material from some lowlife street dealer... " hey Dude, sorry i´m out of pot, u want some acid?

Legalization seperates those markets. People have a liberal environment in which they can find out what they do and dont like, ...and in those coffeeshops in Holland there are non-potusers as well.

....and the statistics REALLY show that the liberal legal approach does reduce the social problems.
And brings taxes, too.

It is assumed that 10% of the world´s money flow is illegal-untaxed drug money,
...and it´s in the hand of REALLY criminal people.

..to sum up why i compared the topic to religion the whole time.
For me the spliffy after work is a form of "speed-meditation"
it calms me down, removes all the rubbish compost we gather during the day,
and helps me to come back to my inner-centre. Everyday.

Other people go to Thailand and take refuge in a buddhist temple, to learn meditation
and focus on what is wrong/right/important. Others sink themselves in Bible exegesis to find
truth and peace.

I find both methods silly, and it makes me smile about those people.
But nonetheless i respect them, and their choice. Unless they become complete idiots who defy everything that
is proven, important and fair.

..and i want that respect and tolerance as well.
You all don´t have to like drug-use, but you have to respect all the people who do as NORMAL.
Unless they become complete idiots who defy everything that
is proven, important and fair.

summary: the dose make the poison.

in that way Drug-junkies and Church-junkies play in the same league.

Thanks all for reading&participating&trying to understand.
-Weltregierung over&out.

messybuu

on Feb 18, 2004

Now drug advocates are comparing drug use to religion? With the ways they seem to praise drugs, it seems that they would have no problem giving them to children. This is yet another reason why I'm all for keeping it illegal.

bakerstreet

on Feb 18, 2004

Weltregierung :

, nah. Do you know the population of the Netherlands? Like 16 million people. Do you know the relative poverty level? People try to make the same comparison in terms of crime, as well, and it is just as irrelevant. The Netherlands is a tiny nation with a tiny population, and is in no way representative of a nation with 260 million people in highly stratified social system.

Comparing drug use in the Netherlands to drug use in the US would be like comparing crime in rural maine with crime in Los Angeles.

PoetPhilosopher

on Feb 18, 2004

Messy Buu - I can't figure out if you are real or an online caricature who posts in an attempt to rile people up - since every post you make is so funny and outlandish.

LOL

messybuu

on Feb 18, 2004

My posts are funny and outlandish because I notice the huge differences between religion and drugs, and because I acknowledge that if drugs are as great as you and others say, that surely children should have them as well. After all, it's not as if the side effects are that bad, right? At least not bad enough to mention. Besides, society lets children practice religion and watch action movies, and that supposedly has the same effect as drugs (at least according to drug advocates), so why not?

PoetPhilosopher

on Feb 18, 2004

I give you credit for consistency Messy.

Did ANYONE click the link!??

Weltregierung

on Feb 19, 2004

@MessyBuu ...i think the comparison is okay.

I wouldnt give drugs to children, as much as i think it is unsmart to give religion to children.
There´s a long tradition to do so. But that doesnt make it better.

Hey baker,
this sounds like you have no idea what Amsterdam and Rotterdam are like?!

...then let´s compare L.A and A´dam Rotterdam, Crime is a problem in Holland too, but the crime level is related to the social problems, not Drug-related.

...i am concerned for the majority of people who are able to use drugs for relaxation, enjoyment etc...

''Just because a tiny fraction of people stick out and pose a problem, is no reason to prosecute all the millions
who function well.

to stay with my profane comparison, Nobody outlawed the christian sects because of David Khoresh and his Wac(k)os. And nobody outlawed guns, yet even though events like columbine etc take place regularly.

i speak for equality. In a society where many REALLY stupid things are institutionalized, legal and normal
i want that same right for myself.

In the US you can live beside someone who collects AK´s, stockpiles Ammo, drinks himself stupid everyday,
..but i would be the criminal, peacefully smoking a joint.

the relation is just not right in the land of the free, home of the double-morale

EMacy

on Feb 19, 2004

Precise Weltregierung
_now a voice from The tiny country of The Netherlands, pop. 17.5 million as much land-mass as Rhode Island.

. Me and my Pals---> just going to step outside our boxes and burn one: C'mon, Debidoll, Muggaz, PoetPhil( great thread) Weltreg.....
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, back now, what was I going to say??? Oh yeah.

Bakerstreet_
It's all a prop. Good, bad, left and right_being a pot-smoker or choosing to express your indifferences about soft-drugs, we don't want to convert you_but if you follow the argument and compare it to The Netherlands_you would reach similar conclusions:That once again America is lying to the public not for their protection but for their profits.
recreational drugs are not for everyone_that's for sure, and that's a personal choice,
, to be respected_ albeit you and many of your type would benefit, like someone said already, from the calming affects of WEED.( indoor, hydroponically grown- weed...none of this outback by the 'mater weed, debidoll..) However, just as most of us wiet smokers and probably many more people_don't appreciate someone trying to convince us that Jesus died on a cross for our sins and was born again...You probably would appreciate me not trying to tell you that YOU would benefit from the medicinal affects of smoking weed_HUmans have a Gotta -Get-outta-my-head switch, built in, and if you, Baker_have repressed this beautiful feature in yourself , it is obvious to me through these last very uptight, critical, judgemental posts.

You say that those activities you value are REAL experiences, ...procuring a spliff can be a REAL,(ie:no Props,) experience too_full of real prop-filled challenges, skill, patience,sometimes adventure and BIG RISK and some, humans, just love taking big, dangerous_if-I-Get-Caught-I'mgoing-to Jail risks! wheeeee, feel the flow of serotonin like a rush!...worse is the real experience of actually getting caught...Now theres some real-life-experience.

There are, btw, medicinal values in XTC as well as being great fun on a Saturday night at the Dance Hall...The use is being tested for the reducing-symptoms of Parkinsons disease and there are valid pyschological applications for the dance drug, MDMA.
The medicinal value in smoking or ingesting are widely known. It is commonly perscribed for glaucoma, arthritis, MS, the undesirable affects of chemotherapy.

you are judgemental, narrow-minded, very short sighted and ill-informed in your veiwpoint on The Netherlands approach to substance use and abuse and Wiet Regulation. Your type has to distant itself from countries like the one I live in_otherwise all of the money spent_600$ a second will be for nothing. They lie to the masses about drugs to keep them away and all it does is make the kitty that much sweeter. Whats forbidden is far more attractive.
Have you forgotten about millions in the US who are given serotonin daily in the form of Prozac or other serontonin reuptake inhibitors(anti-depressants) or Ritalin for kids who are a bit over-active ( a hit of speed must rememdy that situation a treat!) or how bout Rush Limbaughs addiction to a heroin-like drug, oxytocin_is that the name of it? ) I think you have conveniently set that group aside as " ordained drug users" because they get it from the Doc. Across America are millions stuffing pills down their necks beacuse they can't deal_does that really make them a wuss or weak? Be atleast fair in your judgments.
Here are some of the perks of having a Koffeeshop on the corner:
* My local gov't reaps tons of *extra taxes* from the sale and from the vsitors it brings to our small town. More money to catch hard drug dealers.
* I never run out
*It's impossible to become pysically addicted but I'll admit after a 28 year history of blowing ( "smoking") I am probably psychologically addicted however that doesn't make me " a tosser"lol.
*I can grow upto 5 if I want, in the garden or 5 indoors under grow-lights.
*5 grams is the limit
*My children had exposure to weed growing up and it was available to them_they could decide for themselves and had all of the facts about it. And the most curious thing_The kids didn't want it! Not all, of course, but most didn't want to use weed_Things that are forbidden are sometimes popular_just beacause of that.
*I am not a criminal
*The quality is superior
*The chance of me using weed as a gateway drug are NULL.
*The chance of being robbed by a crazed crack addict are slim because people who are addicted are treated for their health problems and not made instant criminals.
*Where I live are no junkies in the streets_A'dam or R'dam may be different.
*The cops can concentrate on tackling the issue of Hard Drugs, beacuse the other "weed- market" they can 'keep an eye on' beacuse it's out in full view. If they want to bust one going over the border it's easy ( we can buy it but can't take it outside the border...)

V for Victory( when the gov't asked everyone in America to Grow Weed!...Hemp is a threat to many industries. *bad for government*
There is too much money to be made keeping weed prohibited. America is far to vast to regulate something as weed_it would be exploited.
Holland has taken a ton of flack for this revolutionary approach. Not only from America but from our neighbors as well. The most interesting part to the Dutch drug experiment is that by seperating the two markets, hard and soft, they could address addiction and treat addicts with methadone_supply counseling and offer solutions rather than imprisonment. The number of addicts on the street etc. has been reduced significantly.

I thought this was great, Welter.
Many people think people who go to church are idiots, as well as many people think potusers are idiots.
Difference: Millions are in jail for pot, the other millions just get sentenced to heaven.
So true.

Weltregierung

on Feb 19, 2004

Nice to meet you here E.Macy.
...a german-european neighbor says Hi.

Maybe someone should make a movie:
Bowling for Sensemilla,... or the like.

in the end it will probably show that the paranoia and low education levels
combined with high levels of Church Membership, plus lots of Guns, Ammo & Police,
are the reason why things are so much different in the U.S.A.

..it is not the drugs.

and the little tiny Netherlands are almost the only ones in the world who
have made a successful step in the right direction.
....unfortunately dope-buying refugees from the surrounding prohibition zone
stream in, and walk around completely stoned. Well at least they bring money.

" Mr.Nice" by Howard Marks is a good book, too.

ah yeah, and e.Macy: search Ronald K. Siegel´s book.....a completely new approach....very very good.

peace
- Weltregierung

EMacy

on Feb 19, 2004

Big laughs...cheers weltregieung, what a nice comment, this doesn't happen often here with my sordid opinions and drug
use.

Must check the Ron Siegel book. I'm a Horward fan from wayyyy back, secretly I want to have his children. (

)shhhhhh.
It's sad that the whole world is dollarwhipped. Here is a workable solution_
Duitsland you say. Also American? Your grammar is too good_lol.
Good to meet you too.
C

messybuu

on Feb 19, 2004

I wouldnt give drugs to children, as much as i think it is unsmart to give religion to children.
There´s a long tradition to do so. But that doesnt make it better.

How is it unsmart to give religion to children? I really want to know how religion can be detrimental to children. Although I acknowledge that religion can be abused, the same holds true for everything including water. Do drug advocates hate religion or do they believe that their drugs improve their life, or that religion generally hinders life as bad as drugs do?

jeblackstar

on Feb 19, 2004

How is it unsmart to give religion to children? I really want to know how religion can be detrimental to children.

I believe the kind of religion that was being talked about is the fundamentalist relgions spouted by Christian and Muslim radicals. This is not the religion of St. Augustine.

A man who should be read more often.

Cheers

Weltregierung

on Feb 20, 2004

Hey,

to make clear, my comparison to religion comes from the fact that:

- theres a big number of people who are really into it. ( same with cannabis )

- the people who are not into it cannot see anything good in it. ( same with cannabis )

but the law should b e at least equal.
there is absolutely no proof that god exists, and by historic evaluation
the bible is about as serious a document as the USA Today or the Mirror.
A fairy tale history book written by the victors for reasons of mass-control and PR.

But nonetheless it is widely spread and accepted as a cultural tradition. And you can even teach it to your kids
without being prosecuted. That is freedom.

at the base i think there is no difference wether you get something out of the tradition of an old book,
and the enjoyment, meditation one can get from the flowers of a hemp plant.
Both has its deficits, nothing is perfect.
All i am speaking for is freedom.

...the assumption that for example christianity is a good thing comes from the fact that Millions openly
practice it, and that it has been around for so long.
If we were an atheist society and suddenly someone would preach bible-values,
he´d be put into a jail full of psychologists..... just because the majority has no idea what it is about or
why one would do something like that.

We humans seem to have a tendency to dislike things we do not know about.
And if we have the power we are gonna force people to like what we like.
Makes us feel better.

Summary:
If you have a church and can do service for a god that you cannot prove exists,
and even make minors attend.
Then please give me the freedom to into the building right beside it, drink a coffee, smoke a spliff,
and talk about world politics/football/philosophy.
Believe it or not for me it exactly the same thing. That´s why i tolerate people´s belief. Cause i have faith, too.
in myself and what is good and right.

thank you. And blesses.

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