Whats from the Earth is of the greatest worth, before you knock it, try it first - Lyrics to Ben Harpers song 'Burn One Down'

Whose reality? What is being in a state of normal? Ever been head-over-heels in love? Ever been depressed about a friend's death? Ever been exhilerated and in a heightened state of awareness from reality? It's all chemical reactions man. It's just synapses firing. To be opposed IN PRINCIPLE to drugs because they modify reality is fundamentally misguided. You artificially compartmentalize.

Most people differentiate between emotions and popping pills, smoking a joint, etc. One wouldn't be fined for driving while depressed, exhilarated, in love, but they will be fined for driving while under the influence of a mind-altering drug.

I don't need the government to sanction something that I can grow next to my tomato plants (hence forgoing the "sleazy dealer" as you call it). Decriminalization would be nice, though, as throwing me in jail for growing a fucking plant in my garden is pretty stupid, wouldn't u agree?

Well, it'd definitely be regulated. I'm not sure about this, but isn't it illegal for individuals to make their own beer without a license? If so, I imagine that such a law would be made for pot plants. As with any other drug, it's going to be regulated to prevent misuse.

debidoll: IF you think for a second that you'll be allowed to grow your own pot if it is legalized, you're nuts. It will be controlled like distilled spirits and you'll be paying the same guys that make cigarettes now. They'll probably play with it genetically and chemically until it is as bad or worse for you than cigarettes.

Anyway, the only people I have known that grew it between their tomato plants sold it to supplement their welfare checks. To each his/her own. Still gotta explain to your kids/parents why you needed something so bad it was worth going to jail for.

PoetPhilosopher & Muggaz:

"Another mindless citizen stuck in a box who doesn't even recognize the box, and probably would not even acknowledge said box."
"Whats from the Earth is of the greatest worth, before you knock it, try it first "

OMG, I love the hippy talk. Do you guys realize that that is the SAME logic that fundamentalist Christians/cultists use? "No one can understand unless they are one of us."

You both just basically said that in order to understand drugs you have to try them, and then you understand them. Now, who the hell sounds like a line from reefer madness? Me? pffft. I would swear that WAS a line from reefer madness. That kind of A Priori logic is so far below you guys, it surprises me to hear it come from you.

There is no box, PP, not unless your mind makes it for you. Emotional states brought on by reality ARE reality. That is life. Drugs are what you use when you don't have enough stimulus to make those states, I suppose. Anyway, you're talking brain, not mind, not intellect. Screwing with your brain chemistry just further dissociates the two.

You go ahead and pretend that your willingness to prop up your reality with pot makes you somehow more well rounded. It doesn't. It is just one more consumable product that you need that I don't. Some people use botox, others max their credit cards, or spend hours sliding cash in stripper's thongs, others use drugs. They are all little props to make ya feel complete.

You want to masturbate with your body chemistry, cool, but it doesn't make you in any way superior.

Messy Buu: Beer you can make. Distilled spirits like whisky you can't.

There is no box, PP

Let it be known I predicted this reply!! (smiles smugly)

Some people use botox, others max their credit cards, or spend hours sliding cash in stripper's thongs

Ride motorcycles, perform on stage, drive SUVs, hunt game. Ya - it's all about experiencing life right... feeling complete.

You want to masturbate with your body chemistry, cool, but it doesn't make you in any way superior.

Heheh. Cool analogy. I like it a lot. But I come to a different conclusion in regards to the value - let's just say "you don't believe it makes me superior", but.. I don't really recognize your yardstick. So there ya go.

So we are in agreement it should be legalized and regulated beyond certain quantities?

What about drugs like heroin? What about addiction?

You both just basically said that in order to understand drugs you have to try them - thats a negative Baker, we never said that.

We just implied that you wont understand why we take them unless you have tried them yourself.

Which is true, because you can only read about the mind altering experiences, and you thoughts on drugs will be created based on the authors perspective, rather than your own.

We both understand that drugs are essentially bad, but i think i speak for both of us when i say that we are on top of our habits, and we dont hold anything against you at all for not using...

Don't lump ME in with the potheads!!!

"Ride motorcycles, perform on stage, drive SUVs, hunt game. "

No, again, those are real life experiences that enhance your mood *because* they are experiences. Smoking pot is an artificial change, not a byproduct of life. Keep banging that drum all you want, but with drugs you by-pass the cause and go straight to the effect. Why? If it is just a natural, equatable effect like the highs and lows of life, why do you need pot to get it? If it isn't equitable, then it is artificially enhancing life, and we are back to the prop.

The SUV part might apply if you drive one just to *feel* successful. Kind of pathetic, huh? Again, not unlike botox/plastic surgery junkies, etc. Life is okay, but if you have a hard day/year you just need that little umph... I find it sad.

"We just implied that you wont understand why we take them unless you have tried them yourself."

Fine, then you have to agree with people who are in cults. Unless you are a believing member of a cult, willing to drink the poisoned Kool-Aid, then you really don't know that it is bullshit, and you can't condemn them. LOL, I know it is bullshit without drinking the Kool-aid. I don't need to take drugs to understand that I don't need them. I simply don't need them in the first place. If I need them after I have tried them, well, that is pretty damning for drugs.

Like the 'techno' excuse above. If it is so much better when you don't have that extra seratonin, what happens next week when you can't get it? The normal act is just that much suckier because you can't prop it up. What was fun, now isn't as fun. The non-X experience has been devalued.

"So we are in agreement it should be legalized and regulated beyond certain quantities?"

Um, no. It shouldn't be legalized, nor should anything specifically used to become intoxicated. I'm not saying the world would come to an end if people grew their own between their tomato plants. I'm not saying I hold anything against you guys for using. When you promote the use, though, you are influencing people to use that might not be as "on top of our habits", and who could end up in jail.

Roland K. Siegel wrote a great book on drugs, with the thesis wether it is a natural phenomenon that animals and humans use drugs.

DO NOT NAIL THE SUPPLIERS! Legalize it, and make sure the mafia doesnt earn a dollar.

Most of the former US presidents were the biggest tobacco/alhohol producers in the US. First ofr all
George Washington! They used to roll kegs of booze into the chamber before the voting.


I am not for leagalization of cocaine trade for example, but it should be legal for one to grow his own coca plants,
just like we can buy coffee at the supermarket ( exploiting the 3rd world)

www.overgrow.com ...plant a seed, and fukk the war on drugs.

How many of US congress use or have used weed, coke, prozac, speed, alc., tobacco, viagra, ...prostitutes...,
mafia-style connections..... hippocrite is an american word, IMO it was hardly ever used before 1865.

It´s a fukked up world where u have the religious freedom to worship almost any kind of bullshit u can come up with, but
you get jailed with rapists, murderes and hardcore criminals for just smoking a lil herb.

oh well, who am i telling this anyway. it´s 2004, we all use the internet, ...everyone should know better.

- Weltregierung

-->Booz<-- was a presidential candidate btw, he campaigned with so much liquor that we all use
"Booze" as a synonym for alcoholic beverages

Yeah, Bakerstreet....I also had your mode of thinking for a very long time.......I first smoked pot when I was 37 (I know, ). I was always "afraid" because I bought into all that crap that they feed you about how "it's pot now, heroin next week".,etc., etc. but my curiosity got the better of me, and I tried it.....and I damn well liked it!! When people tell you that it "opens your mind", and "gives you a different perspective", that IS true.....for example, pre-marijuana Beatles (I Wanna Hold Your Hand), and *post-marijuana Beatles (Strawberry Fields). I won't convince you, as I wasn't convinced......I know how you are thinking, and I wouldn't want to go back there.

Weltregierung said it best...."Fight crime.....GROW YOUR OWN!" I'll be visiting www.overgrow.com now.......

*Thank you, Bob Dylan!

If the pot heads are correct in that pot is some super elixir that makes people better, then I think we not only should legalize it, but have our kids toke daily!

When people tell you that it "opens your mind", and "gives you a different perspective", that IS true.....for example, pre-marijuana Beatles (I Wanna Hold Your Hand), and *post-marijuana Beatles (Strawberry Fields).

Post-Marijuana Beatles: Marrying Yoko, saying they're bigger than Jesus, the end of the Beatles.

I dont know when anyone ever said that pot is some super elixer...

it certainly hightens your senses though, and Welt hit the nail on the head. Watch a movie when not stoned... then watch the exact smae movie while high, i will ensure you that the movie will be ten times better.

Also - thanks for your input debidol, i also used to think were were bad, mmmmkay.

BAM!!!

Oh yeah... so lets blame the break up of the beatles on Pot... right.

To quote Bill Hicks

If you are so against drugs, you had better get rid of all of your albums, because its a fair chance that the artists were real fukn high on drugs.